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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4231
Quote:
And yet another one that I described elsewhere: Add a singleband AGC-style compressor just before the Final Limiter (same place where the singleband compressor is now), with high up/down speeds. Reason: This causes a bit of pumping, but not that much, while keeping the RMS volume more constant. And the RMS volume is the most important thing for the quality that comes out of the Final Limiter and Loudness filters - so this would introduce a bit of pumping (careful listening to many FM stations shows that a lot of them do this also!) but at the same time make the sound much cleaner, which enables a louder output and/or a cleaner sound. This effect can be heard very clearly when you play Lady Gaga - Alejandro and compare the sound of FM Loud (Bass) and FM Hot. Both have nearly the same output level, but FM Hot has far more pumping and much cleaner highs. By placing the singleband AGC just before Final Limiter the pumping can be minimized while the cleaner highs can be maximized.
wow..
That's exactlly what i tell you erlier...
But what is important! To add another thing for compressor . .and that is "ratio" !! (+ knee)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:08 am 
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Quote:
But what is important! To add another thing for compressor . .and that is "ratio" !! (+ knee)
Lol... I had to look those up to know what they mean :-)

Anyway:
Knee: In Multiband and Singleband compressors, you can do something like this by setting the Compress/Limit slider closer to Compress. See the image on http://help.stereotool.com/multiband_compressor.shtml . The place of the 'knee' is determined by the input level (or actually, it's at a constant location, but the effect can be altered this way).

The AGC has a constant knee-like behavior for softer sounds (initial response speed for sounds just above the threshold is very slow, and then increases upto the maximum speed at higher input levels).

Ratio:
For Multiband and Singleband, see the same image.
The AGC does not contain something like this, instead it always tries to reach the same output level.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:10 am 
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Posts: 11425
New version with new default settings for AGC up and down speed and remove remaining peaks:
Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... A510-3.exe
Stand alone version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... A510-3.exe
VST version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... A510-3.dll
VST version (No SSE2): http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... A510-3.dll
Command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... A510-3.exe


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4231
hmm ..

well .. knee is not so important for multiband bands. But after some quick tests with Sonitus FX Multiband plugin..
i realized that "ratio" is doing what i think is needed for multiband bands! (not expander, as i requested in "wish list")

Some processor have some small ratio in AGC, but i think it's not needed in ST . For any real compressing is important.

I know that in ST multiband compress make output to sound more open but .. i wish i could make separate for each band. (?)
Limit or compress. So, lower bands - i would use more compress, Higher bands i would use more Limiting.
- That's another fast idea for multiband. But ratio per band is better :?


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:56 am 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 475
Quote:
....Add a singleband AGC-style compressor just before the Final Limiter (same place where the singleband compressor is now....
I have not installed the latest beta yet.
But I hope that you have not replaced the singleband compressor with this new singleband AGC-"compressor" ?!
I need the (old) singleband compressor !
So, I hope that it is not a bad sign, that BETA510-3 has a size of 666 KB. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
(I am not sure, if I really should install this. Maybe it could help to put one hand on the bible while executing the setup :?: ).

Here a nice free and easy to use compressor from Antress
(for Hans to learn more about ratio and knee :mrgreen: ):
Image
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3912741
and here some other free plugins from Antress:
http://antress.er-webs.com/
It's all created with Synthmaker (uMAX Compressor too), but some are very usefull.

I want to learn more about Stereo Tool.
http://help.stereotool.com/
It would be great help if you could add some block diagrams to the documentation (similar to the block diagram Leif created for the Breakaway core).


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:09 am 
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Quote:
But I hope that you have not replaced the singleband compressor with this new singleband
No, I'll put both in there. (Although I expect that the AGC-type compressor will give a better sound in most cases.)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:55 am
Posts: 138
hi hans..i got the key you sent and i registered stereo tool in my name...thank you ..

that is all carry on lol :D


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:45 pm 

Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 10:10 am
Posts: 74
Quote:
New version with new default settings for AGC up and down speed and remove remaining peaks:
Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... A510-3.exe
This does appear to be a good version. You still have the Achilles heel.

It is somewhat ridculus in not having proper documentation for it especially an in-depth clarification of the settings.
1st page syas 5.02 but the rest make reference to v3.0 :shock:

Perhaps now take time to bring the documentation up to scratch(current) then concentrate to the bugs or enhancemnts not only for those that use it for FM radio but those that use other venues. In the mean time let the bugs/enhancements accummulate then when done(documentatiion) tackle them thus you are up-to-date.

I am currently using SAM DJ and soon will re-open my radio station with SAMBC BUT without proper docucmentation I wont register this product which IMHO is excellent.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:20 am 
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Posts: 11425
Quote:
1. Idea for a new feature: Less strict limiting for web radio stations.

Rationale: For web radio stations, it's not really useful to limit the sound very strictly below a peak level, because the peaks change anyway during the MP3/AAC/... encoding.

In some cases (difficult sound) the very strict filtering DOES have a pretty big effect on audio quality.

So: For web radio, turn off the final filtering stage (that removes all the remaining peaks). "HARD LIMIT" should be turned off as well, but this idea also includes skipping the last stage of the "Loudness" filter.


2.And another one: Allow configuring AGC gating relative to input level instead of Pre Amp'ed input level. That makes it easier to create a preset where you can just change the Pre Amp value without changing the gating behavior - which in turn would allow me to include gating in the default ST presets.


3.And yet another one that I described elsewhere: Add a singleband AGC-style compressor just before the Final Limiter (same place where the singleband compressor is now), with high up/down speeds. Reason: This causes a bit of pumping, but not that much, while keeping the RMS volume more constant. And the RMS volume is the most important thing for the quality that comes out of the Final Limiter and Loudness filters - so this would introduce a bit of pumping (careful listening to many FM stations shows that a lot of them do this also!) but at the same time make the sound much cleaner, which enables a louder output and/or a cleaner sound. This effect can be heard very clearly when you play Lady Gaga - Alejandro and compare the sound of FM Loud (Bass) and FM Hot. Both have nearly the same output level, but FM Hot has far more pumping and much cleaner highs. By placing the singleband AGC just before Final Limiter the pumping can be minimized while the cleaner highs can be maximized.
"1" is ready, building now - should be uploaded tomorrow morning. I have also slightly re-organized the Loudness&Limiting window.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 11425
Quote:
It is somewhat ridculus in not having proper documentation for it especially an in-depth clarification of the settings.
I know... Have to do that some time (very) soon...


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