Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
https://www.forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=26540		 Page 5 of 8
Author:  RodeoJack [ Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
I like the effect, though it does seem an unusual one to put in a processor.

That said, it certainly saves the cost of adding an outboard unit, something I might not have considered at some of the places I use ST.

I do lower the strength substantially though. I don't like effects that are "in your face", but gravitate toward those that add a more subtle tone to the station's sound.

Right now, I have the strength setting down to -18, and am evaluating over time. Turning it on at 100% made it far too dominant for me.

I reset the stereo enhancers to what Hans is now recommending, and agree that it seems a better way to go.
Author:  parelduikerfm [ Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Why what the hell... this crap thing in a processor..listen when you switch/tweak the parameters... Good job Hans, starting make a sinking ship
Author:  hvz [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Quote:
i asked once, but let's try again.
Limiter for normal output should be using Bass clipper from ABDP, but it does not. Why?

It does use it but not in same way as in clipper mode.
Hm it should. What makes you say it doesn't?
Author:  hvz [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Quote:
I propose these settings, it's up to you to see if you're interested :)
Yup, I made some changes just before starting the beta build and the effect was way too big with the default settings. This sounds ok.
Author:  hvz [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Quote:
How do you like dry drums or bass kick with that?
Try very short reverb times. That makes the drums still sound pretty much dry, but not completely. The defaults are bad - I tweaked them to sound good but changed something in the calculation afterwards...

Quote:
And how many weeks is needed, for example, to add option for gate do detect signal after agc?
I still don't think that that's a good idea, but I might misunderstand what you want to use the gate for.

Typically, you use a gate for example to prevent background noise in spoken word content to be pulled up. In that case, you set a level that you don't expect any "real" audio to drop below as your gate level.

Now, if you make the gate depend on the audio that came before (which is what you're doing by detecting it after the AGC), anything really loud that comes in would cause the AGC to get stuck. Say you have an interview and suddenly someone yells into the microphone or something, that would cause anything after that - which actually needs to be pulled up FASTER - to stay down longer, or even forever if 'gate stop' is used. Similarly, a soft beginning of a song will be pulled up slower if it comes after a very loud song, which again is exactly when it needs to move fast.

Can you explain why you think it does make sense to detect gate levels after the AGC?
Author:  Bojcha [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
i asked once, but let's try again.
Limiter for normal output should be using Bass clipper from ABDP, but it does not. Why?

It does use it but not in same way as in clipper mode.
Hm it should. What makes you say it doesn't?
Bass final peek level determined by ABDP is not same when you use limiter. There is no 'that' bass clipping with limiter ON.
Quote:
Quote:
How do you like dry drums or bass kick with that?
Try very short reverb times. That makes the drums still sound pretty much dry, but not completely. The defaults are bad - I tweaked them to sound good but changed something in the calculation afterwards...
I will sure never use that reverb thing. No metter how it sounds.
Quote:
And how many weeks is needed, for example, to add option for gate do detect signal after agc?
I still don't think that that's a good idea, but I might misunderstand what you want to use the gate for.

Typically, you use a gate for example to prevent background noise in spoken word content to be pulled up. In that case, you set a level that you don't expect any "real" audio to drop below as your gate level.

Now, if you make the gate depend on the audio that came before (which is what you're doing by detecting it after the AGC), anything really loud that comes in would cause the AGC to get stuck. Say you have an interview and suddenly someone yells into the microphone or something, that would cause anything after that - which actually needs to be pulled up FASTER - to stay down longer, or even forever if 'gate stop' is used. Similarly, a soft beginning of a song will be pulled up slower if it comes after a very loud song, which again is exactly when it needs to move fast.

Can you explain why you think it does make sense to detect gate levels after the AGC?
[/quote]
Problem with current gate is that it's strongly dependent on input level. Any thresh settings is not good. We all saw that many uses 0dB input and others -24dB, so how to tune gate thresh for that. Same problem is for multiband NR.
With gate detection after AGC you are always in range, range of AGC. Loud burst can be problem but putting slowness in gate and knowing that AGC is not compressor/limiter will probably not be problem at all because slower attack.
It is used mostly for low passages in tracks.
Author:  RodeoJack [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Quote:
I will sure never use that reverb thing. No metter how it sounds.
With respect, Bojcha, ST wasn't developed just you. Lighten up a bit.

There are things in the program that I'm not particularly thrilled with either, but instead of copping an attitude when I don't get everything I want, I just leave the things that don't work for me turned off.

And there have been a couple of occasions when I thought the program could use a feature that Hans didn't see as enthusiastically as I did. That doesn't trash the program or make it a 'sinking ship'. It remains an incredible value when compared with the cost of the formal products that contain its code.
Author:  Bojcha [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
I will sure never use that reverb thing. No metter how it sounds.
With respect, Bojcha, ST wasn't developed just you. Lighten up a bit.

There are things in the program that I'm not particularly thrilled with either, but instead of copping an attitude when I don't get everything I want, I just leave the things that don't work for me turned off.

And there have been a couple of occasions when I thought the program could use a feature that Hans didn't see as enthusiastically as I did. That doesn't trash the program or make it a 'sinking ship'. It remains an incredible value when compared with the cost of the formal products that contain its code.
- I never said that things i dont like should be removed.. but just i would never use it. As i said just today.. probably Chorus or delay would someone like too, so why not to add that too.
- I never mention "sinking ship"
- Point is where is the line we should not cross for professional FM/streaming audio processing.
- I am not talking about things that i mention today or yesterday, there are stuff that i am asking 3 or 5 years ago. Like AGC Window, for example, and finally we have it (still wrong and complicated) after 5 years.
- Almost every filter in ST is half-done and/or overcomplicated - That is critical! And we are adding reverb!? but yet we still don't have proper HPF!

So to clear up other things, i am not in bad mood or mad or nothing similar, but this gone little bit too far in wrong direction. I never look things just from my angle. I just want best for this product. This atm is for sure not right way.
I really dont see logic when someone asks for proper ND detection - but reverb feature wins.
Author:  parelduikerfm [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
Bojan, i know you give Hans alot of input,i did it also years ago
But the onley problem is: Hans ignore people like you who knows alot of processing parameters.
But listen to people here whith verry bad ideas and whala there is reverb... ;)
Author:  MrKlorox [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA
This might not be my place to interject, but Hans probably needs to work on less critical side projects like a reverb to maintain his sanity and interest in ST. Beating one's own head against a problem isn't always the way to solve it, and the thought process sometimes needs to do other things while the mind works out stuff in the back-end.

As for the new functionality, what is the recommended listening environment? Speakers or headphones? Open back or closed? How would this work with a binaural style crossfeed plugin?
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